Friday, December 7, 2007

Sola Scriptura?


superbowlxlwasfixed said...

Yes, I firmly believe in sola scriptura. However your speaker says that Protestants believe that "everything I need to know is in scriptures". Well, thanks for putting words in my mouth, but that is not what we (usually) believe, and that is definitely not the case with me. The standard is that we believe that scripture stands alone, and that church traditions and no other book hold a place of authority that compares to scripture.

Church traditions vary all the time, God's truth does not. You could say that the Catholic church had a tradition of killing Protestants in the middle ages. Should we continue that tradition? The Catholic church persecuted those who taught that the earth is not the center of the universe during the middle ages. Should we continue that?

There are other scandals happening in the Catholic church right now with such frequency that you could call them traditions. Do we really want to set these things on par with the Bible? Of course not.

That is why the Bible stands alone in authority. To set up anything else as an authority on par with it sets up man as God whether you like it or not. If you like it, then you don't know God. If you don't like it, then you must admit that the Roman Catholic church has a very serious problem.

Adam the Catholic said...

First off if you want to talk about scandles we can just let me know. I'll set up a post for it if needed. But church scandles has nothing to do with sola scriptura, or tradition. If you can't stay on topic don't comment.
Ok, Let me get this strait. "The standard is that we believe that scripture stands alone, and that church traditions and no other book hold a place of authority that compares to scripture." But saying "everything I need to know is in scriptures" is not true, or the right was to say it? Could you explain?
Do you understand the differance between tradition and Sacred Tradition?
Can you show me where in the Bible it says scripture is the only authority?

superbowlxlwasfixed said...

Actually Church scandals has tons to do with "Sola Scriptura". Here is the problem. Because you have placed this guys words as your blog, then I am going to make the assumption that what he says is what you believe. He said:

(I found it ironic that he called people like me "pride-loaded" right before he says these "pride-loaded" words). "The Catholic Church is the church founded by Jesus." He also said "The Catholic church is the Bible based church. No other church can claim the heritage from this book (the Bible)." If you believe this then this is your situation. You are forced to defend ALL of the actions of the Roman Catholic church because as your have stated this is the church founded by Jesus. The Roman Catholic church has a history that is riddled with things that are completely contrary to Christ, and to what the Bible teaches. I have already cataloged them for you in my previous post. If you need for me to be clearer (I was euphemistic in areas), then I will.

You can call it tradition or you can call it "Sacred Tradition" it doesn't matter. If the church does something that is wrong it is wrong. Period. Jesus didn't say "well, its OK for me to sin because these aren't my 'Sacred Actions', I'll sin only when I am doing 'actions'". (Do you see the parallel?) If a church claims to be the singular church established by Jesus, then you are setting yourself up for an absurd standard that cannot be met on this planet.

The guy defines sola scriptura as this: "everything we need to know is in scripture." Sorry, he's putting words in my (and most other Protestant's mouths). It means simply this: the Bible stands alone in regards to authority. Church traditions and all other books are measured according to the Bible. If they are accurate according to scripture, then they are at God's standard, if they are not, then they failed.

As to scripture being the only authority, you will not find in the Bible anywhere, where it would specifically claim to be the only authority. Read Psalm 119, and you can see where it is clearly implied. Read the history of how the Israelites treated the Word of God, and it is obvious. This is one of the primary reason why the Protestants split off, there were horrible abuses happening in the name of church tradition, and it didn't match up with God's Word.

Again, if you set up "Sacred Tradition" as the same as God's Word, then you are setting up man as God. Is man God?

Adam the Catholic said...

Tradition. The term does not refer to legends or mythological accounts, nor does it encompass transitory customs or practices which may change, as circumstances warrant, such as styles of priestly dress, particular forms of devotion to saints, or even liturgical rubrics. Sacred or apostolic tradition consists of the teachings that the apostles passed on orally through their preaching. These teachings largely (perhaps entirely) overlap with those contained in Scripture, but the mode of their transmission is different.
They have been handed down and entrusted to the Churchs. It is necessary that Christians believe in and follow this tradition as well as the Bible (Luke 10:16). The truth of the faith has been given primarily to the leaders of the Church (Eph. 3:5), who, with Christ, form the foundation of the Church (Eph. 2:20). The Church has been guided by the Holy Spirit, who protects this teaching from corruption (John 14:25-26, 16:13).
The first Christians "devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching" (Acts 2:42) long before there was a New Testament. From the very beginning, the fullness of Christian teaching was found in the Church as the living embodiment of Christ, not in a book. The teaching Church, with its oral, apostolic tradition, was authoritative. Paul himself gives a quotation from Jesus that was handed down orally to him: "It is more blessed to give than to receive" (Acts 20:35).
This saying is not recorded in the Gospels and must have been passed on to Paul. Indeed, even the Gospels themselves are oral tradition which has been written down (Luke 1:1–4). What’s more, Paul does not quote Jesus only. He also quotes from early Christian hymns, as in Ephesians 5:14. These and other things have been given to Christians "through the Lord Jesus" (1 Thess. 4:2).